Ravenmaster

Feb 04, 2019 02:55 PM By  Adam Babcock

Jan 29, 2019 01:26 PM By deesapa

0

May 14, 2018 11:31 AM By  LegacyRTINGS

<p>Thanks for you feedback! We only review 1 size of each TV, we don’t expect there to be much difference between the 65" we reviewed and the 75" model.</p> <p>The contrast ratio of the X850F is not necessarily bad, it really depends on your viewing conditions. In the brightly lit Best Buy store the contrast ratio is not as noticeable as in a dark room. Even for dark room viewing, it depends on how sensitive you are, some people might not notice this as much.</p> <p>Between the X900E and X850F, go with the X900E. It is a bit better at pretty much everything and it is cheaper.</p>

You say “Between the X900E and X850F, go with the X900E. It is a bit better at pretty much everything and it is cheaper.” I am looking for an 85 inches which is not available in X900E so is 85X850F the best choice, what would be an alternate to compare that TV with in 85 inches size range.

There are very few TVs available in 85". Of the ones we’ve tested, there is only the X850F and X900F. If you are willing to go a bit smaller, the Samsung Q8FN, Q6FN, and NU8000 are available in 82". The Q8FN is only a bit more expensive, but is much better.

Careful with 82 inches from Samsungs. They are now infamous with massive ghosting issues but smaller models are unaffected. You can check avsforum and see it in any thread NU, Q series.

Feb 07, 2019 04:24 PM By  Adam Babcock

Were you able to take the pictures of the sub-pixel dithering you saw?

Can’t find it anymore but it IS weird. The “dither” look is quite different. It’s as if the pixels are shooting from a diamond pattern.

Example is if a scene is panning horizontally, the pixels will shoot 2-3 pixels wide horizontally. If the scene pans, vertically, the pixel shoots vertically.

Really weird.

On many static scenes I can’t see it.

Sorry but you may have to test it at a store and use a magnifying glass.

I hope you get good info to help you with your final decision.

Dec 17, 2018 07:14 PM By  Adam Babcock

Dec 17, 2018 08:58 AM By MarcmarkS

0

This problem is annoying, and spoils the experience in watching HDR contents (dark content) with subtitles.

And it was not mentioned in the review, if it had, it would have been a determining factor not to buy this device.

I’ve read reports that this problem can be solved in the advanced menu by lowering the subtitles brightness, but this only works for native subtitles. (not in app’s)

You’re absolutely right that we need to make this more clear in our reviews. We’ve made a note of this and will try and keep an eye out for it in the future. We also looked into this, and yes, you can reduce the brightness of subtitles through the service menu, but this doesn’t work in Apps. We also don’t generally recommend playing around in the service menu, as you can brick your TV if you change the wrong thing.

Thanks, Adam. Please consider a more realistic test for subtitles, black bars and combination of subtitle and black bars in movies for the issues of global dimming and local dimming on top of the usual crawling white boxes and circles on black backgrounds.

Dec 31, 2018 05:33 PM By StevenWells

1

Hi There.

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but does this issue with the 55" sets only affect the picture when being used as a monitor for my computer or even if I’m using my computer for viewing Netflicks, DVD’s, etc?

I hope I’ve explained that clearly enough. Looking forward to your replies.

Steve

In my opinion, if you sit in a regular distance, say about 5 feet or more than that, you will not really notice the cross-hatch patterns on regular content like movies, cable, gaming.

The crosshatching pattern is only really noticeable if you’re close enough to the screen on more static content like PC usage such as web browsing.

The P65 has superior sub pixel structure as confirmed here:

https://i.imgur.com/Q53qwPM.jpg

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2973318-tcl-65-6-series-4k-hdr-tv-first-look-review-148.html#post57283952

I can also personally say that the 65 R61X does not have the cross-hatch sub pixels after checking it at bestbuy.

55 inches seem to be plagued by this. Samsung 55NU8000, Vizio P55-F1 and TCL 55R61X.

P65-F1 and 65R61X doesn’t have it.

I haven’t personally checked if the 65NU8000 has the inferior pixels.

Dec 09, 2018 08:11 AM By OP Subsauce

1

Thanks a lot for all the feedback! Which set would you recommend under the $1,000 price point based upon the above? I stayed away from the Samsung Q6 49 inch set as a true 120 hz refresh rate was important to me. Also, it appears that you have to upgrade to the Q8 to get full array back lighting as the Q6 and Q7 are edge lit displays? Does the Samsung quality overcome that issue?

The Dolby Vision issues aside for the X900F, it appears that would be the way to go if I can find it for a couple hundred more?

Disclaimer: I am not a professional TV reviewer nor have had I taken home any of those TVs except the P55-F1 at some point.

I personally don’t want to buy at MSRP so my opinions about prices might be skewed.

We skipped the 55 X900F for $ 850 tax free from that 1 day sale on Dec. 2 2018 for a call in promo at Buydig. What a total waste.

The 65 inch NU8000 was at a whopping low $ 799 at frys yesterday and friday. For all the NU8000 problems, I would’ve taken that deal if only we were able to get to the nearest Fry’s.

Also missed the $ 799 tax free PCRichardsandson TCL 65 R617 sometime after Black Friday.

You can definitely get a lot for $ 1000.

If you find 55 X900F at $ 900, go for it.

If you can, try the 65 P65-F1 too. Bestbuy still has that ongoing 20 days of deals. It was only $ 899 around BF. Got worse upscaling than Sony X900F and their Smart OS that can’t even get their icons rearranged. If you don’t care about built in smart TVs, you could consider that. I’ve read around that it has better black performance than X900F. Might have less issues with Dolby Vision but it’s said in avs it has its own problems too.

We’re not yet done settling with a TV and looking into the 55 SK9000 for $ 899 since we don’t really mind the grey black of IPS but wide viewing angles can become a priority.

There’s gonna be a lot of ongoing TV sales throughout, probably until new year so it really depends on the deals on what we’ll get for $ 1000.

We’re considering:

Sony 55 X900F = too small; more than double the input lag for 1080p gaming compared below. Great everywhere else. meh OS. Vizio P65-F1 = great dark scene performance, 120 hz, low input lag, 5 HDMI ports, 4 full 2.0 bandwidth; crap upscaling. crap OS. TCL 65 R615/617 = insanely bright, great Roku TV OS; crappy panel lottery; possibly crappy cross-hatched pixels but not confirmed for 65 inch version LG 55 SK9000 = too small. good viewing angles, snappy OS; forced ads, ips problems,

Sigh. Sony seems like an every so slightly safer bet but again, each panel is different even from the same line.

There are also FALD issues like imprinted even quarters all over the screen regardless of brand.

Also 10 inches smaller. Size IMO can have a more wow factor specially for guests since most of the above probably could look samey to the average joe but Sony also gets you a big “name” brand for your snob guests.

Sammy seems like an butthead not giving us the option to disable their crappy local dimming with the NU8000 and also forced ads at least Vizio and LG allows you to but for that 65" $ 799 NU8000? I’d have forgiven Sammy lol

Goodluck.

I’m sorry that I can’t give you a solid recommendation.

Our P55-F1 had the exact same issue, worse vignette on the upper left side when facing the panel.

P55-F1 has problems most obvious for pc use with its sub pixel dithering.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/i1mltNBlHQqtcENa/p55-f1-inferior-pc-usage-with-staggered-sub-pixels

P65-F1 has proper sub pixels.

If the X900F is only $ 200 more for the same size. Go for that. Better upscaling, better motion, almost no flicker.

Google “X900F poor hdr / poor dolby vision” first though.

Namebrand might hold better value for resale.

SK8000 is not in the same ballpark for price and performance. Step up to at least the SK9000. The SK8000 is a dim IPS panel only good for a moder to dimly lit room but it’s an IPS. Good for wide seating.

RTINGS recommends NU8000 for better price to performance against Q6 but if you can get the Q6 for the same price as the NU, get the Q6.

Dec 07, 2018 05:37 PM By OP zuleskid

1

It’s covering at least 50% of the screen. In the central portion. I called support, sent the picture, and they are replacing the set.

Thnaks!

Dec 04, 2018 04:48 PM By  Adam Babcock

How much of the screen is that showing? It looks like a manufacturing defect.

Congrats! I hope you’re next set would be great.

Dec 04, 2018 04:56 PM By  Adam Babcock

Dec 02, 2018 03:30 AM By OP subpixel1

2

Sadly there has also been no proof that any P55-F1 has proper sub pixels. It is at least very safe to assume that not all P55-F1s have correct sub pixel formations.

Case 1:

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-3759084/vizio-p55-pixel-pattern-issue.html

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/YjvEjckCgkA-wE-Q/vizio-p55-f1-pixel-pattern

Case 2:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/401617/lcd-pixels-how-chess-board-pixel-fill-patterns-are-called

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/CDmL-bOLEyHDo_t9/p55-f1-dithering

Case 3 (this thread):

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-38.html#post57190096

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-37.html#post57183966

Case 4:

https://slickdeals.net/f/12315331-vizio-55-p-series-4k-uhd-smart-tv-with-hdr-model-p55-f1-for-550-after-rebate?v=1&p=122776423&posted=1&comment=success#post122776423

https://imgur.com/Ks8HoRc

https://imgur.com/54HjlTb

I have used a magnifying glass on the P65-F1 at bestbuy and it has proper sub pixels. P55 was too high and had no guts to get help from an associate.

Thank you for your detailed research, we’ve added a note to the P Series review, but it may take some time before you see it.

Thanks.

All of us now have to be a little bit more vigilant as I noticed this too with 55NU8000 Samsung.

Hope we won’t let this gain traction by trusting manufacturers.

I wish all of us can nip this in the bud for low-mid range tvs. Classes that are below LG OLEDS/SUHDS, Sony X900Fs/Z9s, Samsung Qs, etc by showing this issue more and more to the masses even if most don’t notice. This should raise the standard even by a bit for the image quality and I doubt it’d suddenly mean a large increase in price.

Dec 05, 2018 07:32 PM By JayEss

1

I bought a P55-F1 a few days ago and am seeing this exact same problem with staggered subpixels. It’s disappointing because I previously had a TCL 49S405 with this problem and I was looking forward to not dealing with it on the much nicer Vizio TV. The problem is obvious when hooked up to my computer with an Nvidia GeForce 1070 Ti that’s outputting 4k@60Hz with RGB color and full dynamic range. The P55-F1 has picture mode set to ‘Computer’ and ‘Full UHD Color’ enabled. Here are some examples of what I see:

https://imgur.com/F3LYYzl - Windows background color picker, which shows heavy checkerboarding on several different colors (but not all of them)

https://imgur.com/zD5zGnn - Steam client window, with the thick, grey line in the center looking really odd due to staggered subpixels

https://imgur.com/r24lKH9 - Rtings chroma 4:4:4 test pattern, which shows weird artifacts on the gray text (you can see some pixels are green or purple despite the image being solid gray)

I’m going to return the P55-F1 because I think this is unacceptable for an $800 TV.

Yup. I also was massively disappointed by the set even at $ 650 specially as we use it as some sort of HTPC.

The average person won’t care for this but we can save the time and effort for people with specific usage or ones with more discerning eyes.

For $ 800, just wait and hunt for a better set at 65" or possibly a $ 900 55" X900F.

Looks like those FALD bulbs under the screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V3TEYw7log

If it’s almost not noticeable on real content or panning sky shots, I might be fine with such set.

Sadly there has also been no proof that any P55-F1 has proper sub pixels. It is at least very safe to assume that not all P55-F1s have correct sub pixel formations.

Case 1:

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-3759084/vizio-p55-pixel-pattern-issue.html

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/YjvEjckCgkA-wE-Q/vizio-p55-f1-pixel-pattern

Case 2:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/401617/lcd-pixels-how-chess-board-pixel-fill-patterns-are-called

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/CDmL-bOLEyHDo_t9/p55-f1-dithering

Case 3 (this thread):

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-38.html#post57190096

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-37.html#post57183966

Case 4:

https://slickdeals.net/f/12315331-vizio-55-p-series-4k-uhd-smart-tv-with-hdr-model-p55-f1-for-550-after-rebate?v=1&p=122776423&posted=1&comment=success#post122776423

https://imgur.com/Ks8HoRc

https://imgur.com/54HjlTb

I have used a magnifying glass on the P65-F1 at bestbuy and it has proper sub pixels. P55 was too high and had no guts to get help from an associate.

UPDATE:

Case 4:

P55-F1 Cross Hatching/Staggered Sub Pixels

https://slickdeals.net/f/12315331-vizio-55-p-series-4k-uhd-smart-tv-with-hdr-model-p55-f1-for-550-after-rebate?v=1&p=122776423&posted=1&comment=success#post122776423

https://imgur.com/Ks8HoRc

https://imgur.com/54HjlTb

This is unlikely rtings fault as they cannot account for bugs and lemons.

I have not encountered this with our P55-F1 (I am not a rep of rtings).

You may have had a lemon and I hope you’ve gotten it replaced regardless of which new brand of tv or a refund.

Please update the review due to the sub pixel structuring of P55-F1.

At the very least, please mention that this exists with the P55-F1 but not the P65-F1.

Nov 30, 2018 08:15 AM By  Adam Babcock

Nov 30, 2018 02:42 AM By subpixel1

2

Aug 08, 2018 09:36 AM By  Adam Babcock

We’ve seen this kind of crosshatching before, like on the TCL S405, but not on the Vizio P Series 2018. We rechecked our unit and there is no visible crosshatching. Are you outputting 4k from your PC with chroma 4:4:4 or RGB color?

Hi, Adam.

Do you have the P55-F1 or were you only able to test the P65-F1?

P55-F1 seems to have the dither sub pixel stagger.

We tested on the P65-F1. That is interesting that this would only occur on the 55" model. This does appear to be a somewhat isolated issue, as there have only been a few reports of this issue.

Sadly there has also been no proof that any P55-F1 has proper sub pixels. It is at least very safe to assume that not all P55-F1s have correct sub pixel formations.

Case 1 (this thread):

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-3759084/vizio-p55-pixel-pattern-issue.html

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/YjvEjckCgkA-wE-Q/vizio-p55-f1-pixel-pattern

Case 2:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/401617/lcd-pixels-how-chess-board-pixel-fill-patterns-are-called

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/CDmL-bOLEyHDo_t9/p55-f1-dithering

Case 3:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-38.html#post57190096

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-37.html#post57183966

I have used a magnifying glass on the P65-F1 at bestbuy and it has proper sub pixels. P55 was too high and had no guts to get help from an associate.

Nov 30, 2018 08:23 AM By  Adam Babcock

Nov 30, 2018 02:36 AM By subpixel1

2

On a related note. Not the best for monitor use as the P55-F1 has a sub pixel staggering going on which makes a lot of the images slightly fuzzy looking almost like fake 4K of lower end LG tvs:

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-3759084/vizio-p55-pixel-pattern-issue.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-37.html#post57183966

In the avsforum a poster later seems to show that their P65 has correct sub pixels.

We just wanted to point out that we don’t know if this is a widespread issue, as there have only been a few reports of it.

Yes. Sadly, atm. There is no single proof across the web that any P55-F1 that has proper sub pixels.

Oct 22, 2018 03:14 PM By OP YanTS

0

I have just returned it. Will go for LG 55 C8

Congratulation on a different TV.

Thanks for mentioning Samsung. I will try to avoid 2018 Samsung TVs as you’ve mentioned unless the price is very good.

P55-F1 has this issue:

Check here:

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-3759084/vizio-p55-pixel-pattern-issue.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-37.html#post57183966

In the avsforum a poster later seems to show that their P65 has correct sub pixels.

Anyway, thank you for posting this info because we were surprised that Vizio did this with the 55 inch model.

Aug 08, 2018 09:36 AM By  Adam Babcock

We’ve seen this kind of crosshatching before, like on the TCL S405, but not on the Vizio P Series 2018. We rechecked our unit and there is no visible crosshatching. Are you outputting 4k from your PC with chroma 4:4:4 or RGB color?

Hi, Adam.

Do you have the P55-F1 or were you only able to test the P65-F1?

P55-F1 seems to have the dither sub pixel stagger.

P55-F1 has this issue:

Check here:

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-3759084/vizio-p55-pixel-pattern-issue.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-37.html#post57183966

In the avsforum a poster later seems to show that their P65 has correct sub pixels.

On a related note. Not the best for monitor use as the P55-F1 has a sub pixel staggering going on which makes a lot of the images slightly fuzzy looking almost like fake 4K of lower end LG tvs:

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-3759084/vizio-p55-pixel-pattern-issue.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2992310-official-vizio-p-series-2018-p55-f1-p65-f1-p75-f1-owners-thread-no-price-talk-37.html#post57183966

In the avsforum a poster later seems to show that their P65 has correct sub pixels.